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Nov 17, 2023, 4:15 pm
#46
COSPILOT
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Colorado
Programs: UA Gold (.85 MM), HH Diamond, SPG Platinum (LT Gold), Hertz PC, National EE
Posts: 5,780
Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
Random one week round-trip next June BE r.t. EWR-HNL $1050, EWR to LHR or CDG $1450. UA's pulling in 30% more per seat on trips 60% as long. That's a huge difference $/mile revenue times how many coach seats? The front cabin fares (even raised) can't justify the whole plane vs what they can get to Europe. And that is exactly why UA is expanding to Europe out of EWR at expense of Hawaii. UA still has plenty of seats to Hawaii, albeit connecting. Believe me, I don't like the move, but I get what UA's doing.
Completely agree. I was buying first for my monthly commute OGG-DEN-COS and back, but Im rare in doing so.
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Nov 17, 2023, 7:49 pm
#47
findark
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,604
Originally Posted by Unitedloyalflyer
You admit you cannot say for sure nobody would pay a premium. You need to stop thinking as an OPM traveler and remember, especially since the pandemic, the front cabins are largely being filled by people traveling on their own dime. That is a very different market than the business traveler and has a different set of expectation.
For Hawaii, the front cabins are nearly entirely filled by this type of flyer. Despite the rising prices for the front cabin, these seats continue to be filled, which means UA has not yet reached the price point where people will stop buying these seats
I am this type of flyer. I will pay $2,xxx to go to Hawaii or to Europe. Neither price is making UA boatloads of money.
The problem is that OPM business travelers are paying $10k to go to Europe and not to Hawaii.
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Nov 17, 2023, 10:56 pm
#48
Unitedloyalflyer
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Houston, TX
Programs: UA silver, Bonvoy gold
Posts: 2,862
Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
Random one week round-trip next June BE r.t. EWR-HNL $1050, EWR to LHR or CDG $1450. UA's pulling in 30% more per seat on trips 60% as long. That's a huge difference $/mile revenue times how many coach seats? The front cabin fares (even raised) can't justify the whole plane vs what they can get to Europe. And that is exactly why UA is expanding to Europe out of EWR at expense of Hawaii. UA still has plenty of seats to Hawaii, albeit connecting. Believe me, I don't like the move, but I get what UA's doing.
Yep, the Y fares. Which is why I was wondering if the high J would be a better fit to HNL and OGG as there are not that many Y seats on those planes
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Nov 18, 2023, 7:29 am
#49
PsiFighter37
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NYC (Primarily EWR)
Programs: UA 1K / *G, Marriott Bonvoy Gold; Avis PC
Posts: 9,074
Originally Posted by Unitedloyalflyer
Yep, the Y fares. Which is why I was wondering if the high J would be a better fit to HNL and OGG as there are not that many Y seats on those planes
Flying a high-J 763 EWR-HNL would be a pretty interesting idea, especially if EWR-LHR is underperforming at the moment.
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Nov 18, 2023, 7:39 am
#50
WineCountryUA
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA LT Plat 2MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 67,271
Originally Posted by PsiFighter37
Flying a high-J 763 EWR-HNL would be a pretty interesting idea, especially if EWR-LHR is underperforming at the moment.
A half fitted EWR-LHR would probably outperform in J revenue a full EWR-HNL and the lack of Y space for EWR-HNL would further hurt revenues. And the EWR-HNL requirement more aircraft aircraft to service, further underpreforming.
findark likes this.
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Nov 18, 2023, 11:15 am
#51
Unitedloyalflyer
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Houston, TX
Programs: UA silver, Bonvoy gold
Posts: 2,862
Originally Posted by PsiFighter37
Flying a high-J 763 EWR-HNL would be a pretty interesting idea, especially if EWR-LHR is underperforming at the moment.
they'd have properly price J of course to cut down on the number of P and Z fares
On an EWR-HNL route given the length, I could justify paying 5-6K for J for the nonstop. I usually budget ~15 for a Hawaii vacation, I'd have no issue raising that to 17-18K if it were the main vacation my wife and I take in a given year (that may be a touch steep from IAH due to the short flight length, like would in the case take the nonstop on the way home only)
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Jun 12, 2024, 7:59 am
#52
buckeyefanflyer
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CLE
Programs: UA,WN,AA,DL, B6
Posts: 4,179
EWR-HNL nonstop
Looks like EWR-HNL nonstop not operating is this permanent why was it cut same with IAD.
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Jun 12, 2024, 8:09 am
#53
escapefromphl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: None - previously UA
Posts: 4,928
Originally Posted by buckeyefanflyer
Looks like EWR-HNL nonstop not operating is this permanent why was it cut same with IAD.
They confirmed the reason when they announced the cut. Demand or lack thereof. They can get better return using the aircraft on other routes.
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Jun 12, 2024, 8:21 am
#54
Seph87
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: LAX
Posts: 221
Simple, there is not enough O&D traffic from NYC to HNL to sustain a direct long haul flight. Most on the east coast will choose to do a warm-weather vacation in Flordia, Mexico, or a Caribbean island. The few that choose to go to HNL have a myriad of connecting options through SFO or LAX. Connecting through SFO/LAX only adds about 2-3 hours to a 10+ hour journey, provides many more departure and arrival options, and also allows you to fly on UA to other islands besides Oahu.
artvandalay and Auto Enthusiast like this.
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Jun 12, 2024, 8:53 am
#55
sonyeoshin
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: SFO
Posts: 376
IAD-HNL is currently operating still but only on Saturdays.
EWR-HNL nonstop appears to be bookable from November 22 to March 24, but it doesn't mean the route will still operate.
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Jun 12, 2024, 9:08 am
#56
angetenar
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: LAX
Programs: UA
Posts: 1,613
EWR-HNL is likely a seasonal suspension and will return with the Northern Winter
IAH-OIL-TRASH and Auto Enthusiast like this.
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Jun 12, 2024, 4:11 pm
#57
buckeyefanflyer
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CLE
Programs: UA,WN,AA,DL, B6
Posts: 4,179
Originally Posted by Seph87
Simple, there is not enough O&D traffic from NYC to HNL to sustain a direct long haul flight. Most on the east coast will choose to do a warm-weather vacation in Flordia, Mexico, or a Caribbean island. The few that choose to go to HNL have a myriad of connecting options through SFO or LAX. Connecting through SFO/LAX only adds about 2-3 hours to a 10+ hour journey, provides many more departure and arrival options, and also allows you to fly on UA to other islands besides Oahu.
still had a lot of connections even backwards I did CLE-EWR-HNL twice some years ago flight was full.
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Jun 12, 2024, 7:04 pm
#58
Smiley90
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2015
Location: BOS, YVR, ZRH
Programs: *G
Posts: 17,526
Originally Posted by Seph87
Simple, there is not enough O&D traffic from NYC to HNL to sustain a direct long haul flight. Most on the east coast will choose to do a warm-weather vacation in Flordia, Mexico, or a Caribbean island. The few that choose to go to HNL have a myriad of connecting options through SFO or LAX. Connecting through SFO/LAX only adds about 2-3 hours to a 10+ hour journey, provides many more departure and arrival options, and also allows you to fly on UA to other islands besides Oahu.
How does ORD-HNL do? Similar issues or not?
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Jun 12, 2024, 7:11 pm
#59
phkc070408
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Delaware
Programs: UA Mileage Plus, Amtrak Guest Rewards
Posts: 1,419
I dislike loosing a guaranteed Polaris Seating option to HNL. The ORD flight is now the lone flight that pretty much guarantees Polaris/PE with a 787-10. All of the other HNL flights are either Domestic 772s, 737s, 757-300s, or if you're lucky a 757-200.
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Yesterday, 12:47 am
#60
dkc192
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 5,848
Originally Posted by Smiley90
How does ORD-HNL do? Similar issues or not?
ORD has a much larger connectivity shed so it should do better. EWR gets you all of the east coast. ORD gets you almost all of that (you lose the small markets that have EWR but no ORD service...which I can't think of many), plus the Midwest and even some of the Southeast/South.
SPN Lifer and Smiley90 like this.
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